The Evil Within 2 Presentation Tuesday 2 PM PT

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Re: The Evil Within 2 Presentation Tuesday 2 PM PT

Postby Autoignition » Jun 15, 2017 12:42 am

Rikitatsu wrote:So whatever happened to the panel where they answer fans questions? No one is reporting on it, no one recorded it... smh.


Yeah, I'm miffed about this. I was ranting in the Discord earlier today about how dirty that is on Bethesda's part. They take community questions and then refuse to let the community hear the answers? Jerks.
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Re: The Evil Within 2 Presentation Today 2 PM PT

Postby DeHeerser » Jun 15, 2017 3:41 pm

Rikitatsu wrote:
DeHeerser wrote:
Rikitatsu wrote:If you take control from the player, you're never gonna scare him. If the game puts me in forced walk, I know whatever horror comes up next won't really kill me. Not only that, it's boring as hell... The first game was guilty of that, and by far it was my biggest complaint.

Laura's encounters were scary...


Agree with the first part for the full 100%.

Second part, agree partially. The first two Laura boss fights were cool, full of tension. The third was cheap because of her constant one hit kills. With very long death animation to make it worse. The boss fight is a hurdle run where you trial and error each part, if you slip up for one or two seconds... One hit kill.

Survival horror is not supposed to be about one hit kills. It is about harrowing, demanding boss fights where, when you finally get through, continue with the uneasy feeling "boy didn't I lose too much ammo and health (items) in that fight?..."

Really? I thought the 3rd encounter was by far the best, and her one hit kills were present in the 1st and 2nd encounter too. The 2nd encounter is pretty great, but once you realize you could just bait her spawning into the corpse closest to you and drop a match once she appears, it becomes a bit less exciting.




DeHeerser wrote:
Survival horror is not supposed to be about one hit kills. It is about harrowing, demanding boss fights where, when you finally get through, continue with the uneasy feeling "boy didn't I lose too much ammo and health (items) in that fight?..."

You shouldn't narrow what Survival Horror is about... One Hit Kills are fine depending on how they are implemented, it's one of the reasons why Laura was such a chilling opponent. Mess up and you're dead... To compensate for that, her One Hit Kill attack animation is slow, so you can run away from it. It never felt cheap or unfair.


Nah. It was just a hurdle parcours where you had to run through a linear section of rooms where you had to shoot the right levers and valves to progress. Trial, error and reaction speed, with no variation to scare or surprise you. You just had to wait for scripted fires to cool down and gates to open after you had already done it ten times.

After shooting the valves a couple of times, you just sit there waiting for the next scripted part of the routine to open up and the thing loses its tension.

And the point is not "one hit kills are not allowed! Shouldn't be in there!!!" The point is, one hit kills should be the exception in a fight, not a rule, they should not have repetitive linear sections to go with them, and they CERTAINLY should not come coupled with long invariable death animations and long reload times!
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Re: The Evil Within 2 Presentation Today 2 PM PT

Postby Autoignition » Jun 15, 2017 4:08 pm

DeHeerser wrote:Nah. It was just a hurdle parcours where you had to run through a linear section of rooms where you had to shoot the right levers and valves to progress. Trial, error and reaction speed, with no variation to scare or surprise you. You just had to wait for scripted fires to cool down and gates to open after you had already done it ten times.

After shooting the valves a couple of times, you just sit there waiting for the next scripted part of the routine to open up and the thing loses its tension.

And the point is not "one hit kills are not allowed! Shouldn't be in there!!!" The point is, one hit kills should be the exception in a fight, not a rule, they should not have repetitive linear sections to go with them, and they CERTAINLY should not come coupled with long invariable death animations and long reload times!


So is it safe to assume that you had those same issues with the IT, Verdugo, and Saddler boss fights in RE4? Because they all did that -- especially IT, who had several OHKO attacks.

TEW was in a lot of ways a spiritual successor to RE4, so naturally some of the boss fights were going to feel very similar. The expectation that it would've been anything different is what puzzles me. Mikami games are gonna Mikami.

Laura's boss fight isn't reflective of all TEW fights, either. The Sadist, unlike Dr. Salvador in RE4, was not a OHKO with the chainsaw. Sentinel had no OHKO attacks. Keeper had no OHKO attacks. Quell had no OHKO attacks. Amalgam Alpha only got them in his second form, and they weren't the only attacks he used.

Whenever I see someone complaining about OHKO in TEW, all I see is someone who got really, really salty over one boss in particular and decided to blame the entire rest of the game for it.
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Re: The Evil Within 2 Presentation Today 2 PM PT

Postby dan76 » Jun 15, 2017 4:44 pm

DeHeerser wrote:
Nah. It was just a hurdle parcours where you had to run through a linear section of rooms where you had to shoot the right levers and valves to progress. Trial, error and reaction speed, with no variation to scare or surprise you. You just had to wait for scripted fires to cool down and gates to open after you had already done it ten times.

After shooting the valves a couple of times, you just sit there waiting for the next scripted part of the routine to open up and the thing loses its tension.

And the point is not "one hit kills are not allowed! Shouldn't be in there!!!" The point is, one hit kills should be the exception in a fight, not a rule, they should not have repetitive linear sections to go with them, and they CERTAINLY should not come coupled with long invariable death animations and long reload times!


I have to agree with this. And with reference to RE4, there were several enemies with one hit kills, but because of the way they were implemented whenever I died I felt it was my fault, not the game. With TEW, especially the part leading up to the final Laura fight... Man that was just frustrating.

Coupled with the fact that the game didn't run smooth in the first place. Lighting a downed enemy on fire as another enemy attacks to set it on fire was just as much luck as it was skill. Sometimes an enemy would ignore the fire, or run through Sebs animation. Way too much luck involved. Too much luck involved in setting Laura on fire.

RE4 is in a different class.
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Re: The Evil Within 2 Presentation Today 2 PM PT

Postby Rikitatsu » Jun 15, 2017 7:09 pm

DeHeerser wrote:
Nah. It was just a hurdle parcours where you had to run through a linear section of rooms where you had to shoot the right levers and valves to progress. Trial, error and reaction speed, with no variation to scare or surprise you. You just had to wait for scripted fires to cool down and gates to open after you had already done it ten times.

After shooting the valves a couple of times, you just sit there waiting for the next scripted part of the routine to open up and the thing loses its tension.

And the point is not "one hit kills are not allowed! Shouldn't be in there!!!" The point is, one hit kills should be the exception in a fight, not a rule, they should not have repetitive linear sections to go with them, and they CERTAINLY should not come coupled with long invariable death animations and long reload times!

There is no trial and error in that boss fight, can you elaborate on that?

Also, you can make pretty much anything sounds dull by describing it like that, the entire fight was you trying to fend off Laura while you wait for the slowmoving doors and fires to stop, and the time spent trying to evade laura is too damn TENSE. Especially without the stamina maxed out, you have to use agony crossbow, shoot the fire pipes, all while evading laura and bypassing the traps scattered around. They even spiced things up with a bunch of Haunted, and even a cool set piece where you're trapped in that corridor and flames keep getting closer to you until you shoot the lever.

It's no different from some of the best boss fights in the classic RE/Dino Crisis games where you fend off a strong opponent while waiting for a door/elevator/something else to open up/power up. Except it's much more tense.

And the point is not "one hit kills are not allowed! Shouldn't be in there!!!" The point is, one hit kills should be the exception in a fight, not a rule, they should not have repetitive linear sections to go with them, and they CERTAINLY should not come coupled with long invariable death animations and long reload times!

Yes, but why not? There's nothing wrong with a monster that it's only move is to OHK you, not every monster has to have multiple moves... As long as the end result is that it's exciting and tense, that's all that matters. And Laura's fights are tense and exciting.

I never really thought the death animation was particularly long, either... What is it, 2 seconds? Meh...
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Re: The Evil Within 2 Presentation Tuesday 2 PM PT

Postby Rikitatsu » Jun 16, 2017 12:03 am

Some more gunplay and a little of Clair De Lune:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BVYKssjAP0O

Don't expect to see more of those as E3 is ending.
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Re: The Evil Within 2 Presentation Tuesday 2 PM PT

Postby Autoignition » Jun 16, 2017 1:27 am

You know what I DON'T see in any of these vids?

A HUD.
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Re: The Evil Within 2 Presentation Tuesday 2 PM PT

Postby berto » Jun 16, 2017 4:09 am

Clair de lune again... I was hoping they changed it for the sequel, maybe Fur Elise or Moonlight Sonata, a Chopin nocturne or sonata, a little change but with the same theme of a famous classical piano piece. I'm no Debussy expert but I'm sure he wrote other pieces of piano music. There's plenty of piano music around and a little variety never hurt anyone.
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Re: The Evil Within 2 Presentation Tuesday 2 PM PT

Postby robflee23 » Jun 16, 2017 10:37 am

Rikitatsu wrote:Some more gunplay and a little of Clair De Lune:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BVYKssjAP0O

Don't expect to see more of those as E3 is ending.




Gunplay looks solid once again. Thank god the aiming FOV is pulled back. Nice reload animation with the pistol. I'm really liking everything I'm seeing so far. Still holding out hope that you have an actual inventory to manage
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Re: The Evil Within 2 Presentation Tuesday 2 PM PT

Postby Rikitatsu » Jun 16, 2017 1:37 pm

berto wrote:Clair de lune again... I was hoping they changed it for the sequel, maybe Fur Elise or Moonlight Sonata, a Chopin nocturne or sonata, a little change but with the same theme of a famous classical piano piece. I'm no Debussy expert but I'm sure he wrote other pieces of piano music. There's plenty of piano music around and a little variety never hurt anyone.

They are probably going for that nostalgia factor...
TBH, for a save room music, I'd rather have an original composition than classic musical pieces.

I'd take something like RE's save room themes over Clair De Lune any day.

Speaking of which, I hope they use BGM more liberally than the first game... I'm a firm believer that no BGM doesn't necessarily = better atmosphere.

The first game had BGM but nothing memorable and only in the action-y segements.
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