Tango hiring for next project, likely using Unreal Engine 4

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Re: Tango hiring for next project, likely using Unreal Engin

Postby Autoignition » Aug 23, 2015 2:53 pm

Rikitatsu wrote:1) How do you know Mobius murdered the staff/patients/cops in the prologue? It was shown clearly that Ruvik did it.


The Administrator plain tells us so in The Assignment. Here's the exact quote I pulled from when I wrote that:

"You won't be alone. You'll be with your team from KPD. You'll get a call on the radio reporting an incident at Beacon. Everything will be arranged."

What we see is Ruvik killing those officers' consciousnesses inside of STEM, not the murder of their actual physical bodies.

It is assumed that the murder scene is entirely in STEM, and Sebastian never woke up in the end of main game. Hence why there are bodies on the floor the same place they were in the prologue.


...? Are you misremembering the ending? The game ends with Sebastian waking up, falling out of the STEM terminal, and meandering out of Beacon. Kidman confirms that it's the real world at the end of The Consequence. Judging from Ruvik's MO and the way he likes to play with his prey like a cat, my assumption was that he recreated the scene at Beacon to be the same inside of STEM to make the transition from real world to STEM as smooth as possible and fuck with everyone's heads a little more because it's less clear when everything just devolved into nonsense. The intro being the way it was left Sebastian wondering if someone did something to him after he'd gotten knocked unconscious -- it wasn't like he took a step or passed a barrier and suddenly out of nowhere everything was ridiculous.

Assuming Seb did ended escape from STEM, it only makes the ending slightly less depressing. Because A) Ruvik got what he wanted, a new body and escaped STEM. B) Mobius got what they wanted, a STEM free of Ruvik. Basically, the bad guys won.


A) Yes, this is true. But this is something that has had no prior testing or experimenting behind it. We don't exactly know how viable or sustainable of a solution this is for Ruvik in the long-term. Leslie's brain/body might end up rejecting him after a time in some capacity. That's why I got so excited when I saw that "Mystery L" pic of just Leslie's eyes. It looked like he was sort of eroding away, like the vessel was breaking down a la Lucifer in season 5 of Supernatural. It's also why I got so nervous about seeing that picture of Sebastian with a shaved head. Due to the nature of why Sebastian in particular is the only person who could have been the protagonist of the game, it makes more sense that he would be Ruvik's "true" vessel instead of Leslie.

B) STEM's not free from Ruvik. We learn that in two different ways: Sebastian seeing a glimmer of Ruvik glitching through the crowd of cops in the ending, and Torn Letter #2 from The Consequence.

"I envision a world where the mere glance of the eye will allow me to spread onto the next. Just as you said, I am a ghost, but now I have a vessel in all of you. [...] Even if you happen to escape, I will leave my mark on you as I did to him."

There's also the Boiler Room Note at the beginning of the game talking about how, even when patients were physically unplugged from the STEM system, they were still synched to Ruvik's brain waves. This is why I said that Sebastian will never be truly "free" from STEM. He can get up and walk and talk and interact with the real world, but part of him will always be linked to Ruvik as long as Ruvik's consciousness continues to exist. Think of it like the Bleeding Effect from Assassin's Creed, if you've ever played those games.

It's my theory that the final boss fight was just a bone that Ruvik threw at Sebastian to chew on in order to distract him while he made his escape from Beacon through Leslie's body. Everyone thinks that Seb purged Ruvik from STEM, but he didn't make it in time to actually do it. Diaz even foreshadows this in chapter 10.

"Ruvik must be really pissed now. Breaking a STEM terminal? Never thought he'd go that far. He must be close if he's severing ties with the past. All he has left is the connection to the present, the full STEM in the hospital. That's where he'll be. Waiting for him. If somebody doesn't get there first, there'll be no way out for anyone!"

Mobius also didn't get a suitable host for STEM to replace Leslie like they wanted. I assume that's why they dragged Joseph away at the end of The Consequence, which made me afraid for a long time that he was just going to end up a brain in a jar in the sequel, but concept art of him being up and around really negated that fear. So. Yeah. Mobius got proper fucked on this deal. Especially now that Kidman's sicced Sebastian on them like an attack dog.

If Seb and co. were pulled by the Wireless STEM while en route to Beacon, then how come they are plugged in the machines at Beacon? One would argue that Mobius sent a team to pick them up from the car, and physically plug them in STEM at beacon. But that would mean a Mobius team was on site the whole time, how come they could let Leslie get up and walk away? In the assignment ending, the Mobius staff in the STEM room seemed non-chalant, like if they weren't in a crime scene or anything, more like in their HQ. Especially the way Myra said "he is expecting a report".


Well, it looks like I know what my next essay is going to be on. :lol: I'll do the next one on the nature of STEM and the glimpses of reality we get throughout the game. (Though of course that forces me to tackle the whole "Sebastian doppelganger" scene from chapter 15, which is the bane of my existence and literally the only scene in the entire game that I still don't understand, but... :x Time to go Pro Mode and figure it out, I guess. I have a few theories already.)

The tl;dr version of that is, yes, someone went and fetched everyone from the squad cars and brought them inside of Beacon. You see that in the very start of chapter 2 where Seb has a brief glimpse of reality and sees himself being wheeled through the hospital on a gurney. Also, Mobius gave everyone an injection compound to protect them from STEM, remember? The only thing is that Kidman's was botched because they thought of her as being expendable, so she's the only one who gets pulled into la la land while everyone else at Mobius is still milling around and doing their thing. I don't think anyone realizes that hers got botched, though, which is why Myra doesn't understand why she's so out of it and confused in the ending. (Either that or another conspiracy theory I have cooked up about this all being Myra's doing, but that's for another time. :P)

And then you got the missing person posters, where Seb and Joseph went missing with different circumstances.


Someone asked Johanas about that on Twitter, and his response was (and I'm paraphrasing), "those posters are more of a statement on who Sebastian is as a person than they are an actual account of the events that happened." I took that to mean that those posters are Sebastian's attempts at rationalizing what's happening and detective-ing a story together so that he can find a solution.

Tango is a Japanese studio, but Bethesda is not. And Bethesda calls the shot in regards to marketing. They've shown recently that they reveal project only when they are relatively close to release (See Wolfenstien, Fallout 4). Coupled with the fact that a sizeable portion of the team must've been busy working on all those DLCs, I find an announcement at TGS highly unlikely... We will see.


When they announced the Dishonored sequel at E3, they gave no projected date. Just a vague "2016" which means that it's subject to change. At the time of E3, that meant that the game was at least a year away from completion.

I wouldn't call showing clips in montages promoting, more like "Look at the variety of our portfolio". Companies show abandoned franchises in their montages all the time.


If that's true, then why didn't they also show off Rage or Brink or Wet or Hunted or Rogue Warrior or any of other IPs they've abandoned just in the past generation alone? I guess you could make the argument that they're only showing stuff from this gen, but seriously, if Bethesda wanted to distance themselves from TEW, it wouldn't be hard for them to do so. They keep bringing it up. They keep showing it off and promoting it, and the Twitter account is still active and tweeting.

The sales record wasn't for Survival Horror, it was for a Survival Horror New IP in America. The actual number for that record is something around 380k. Which is good, but not as amazing as "record smashing success" would sound like... By the way, that record was beaten by another game few months later.


It wasn't just for America. I've never seen an article cite that the record was just in America. It was total sales. This means that TEW beat sales figures for Dead Space and possibly even The Last of Us for the first month of its release. That's not a small thing. And just because Dying Light beat out their record a few months later doesn't make that accomplishment less meaningful. You need to set a record for someone to be able to break it, after all.

And another point to consider is Metacritic (Yes, publishers care about this). TEW sitting at 75 is not encouraging to say the least. TEW had a good opening sales wise, but word of mouth clearly did some damage to the brand, Bethesda even discounted the game to $19 and the game is not even a year old. It shows that sales has waned and were front-loaded, possibly due to marketing and the pedigree behind the game. This casts doubt over whether Bethesda would be interested in making a sequel or not. Perhaps it can be considered a success in the sense that it was profitable for Bethesda. But considering the facts above, Bethesda might find making a sequel to be not the best course of action.


I challenge you to find me a single game that didn't dramatically drop in price within a year of its release that was not a first-party IP (meaning Sony owned, Microsoft owned, or Nintendo owned). I worked at Gamestop for eight years. I have restocked and realphabatized and price changed games so many times that it got to the point where I knew the price point of nearly any given game in the store just off the top of my head without having to look it up. Most games drop to $35 or less within the first two months of their release. It took The Evil Within at least four or five months to hit the $40 threshold (though it did go on sale quite frequently, but I'm talking about the permanent price point). The fact that it's $20 now 10 months after its release, with all of the DLCs out and a leaked GOTY edition on the way and a sequel possibly being announced in less than a month, means nothing to me.

With regards to Metacritic: These scores are less important than you think they are, because the Metacritic number is far, far less important than actual sales numbers and dollar signs are. For example, Alan Wake got an 83 on Metacritic but didn't sell well enough to warrant a sequel. A 75 is not a sequel killer with how well TEW performed monetarily. Bethesda/Tango has shown that they're open to constructive criticism. They released a patch recently that axed the letterbox and turned casual mode into RE4 (seriously, I was watching a friend play it last night and my jaw hit the floor). All that 75 means is that they're going to take the critiques from the first game and learn from them in order to make the sequel even better.

And you got Mikami's philosophy regarding horror and sequels.


If Bethesda wants a sequel out of Mikami, they're going to get a sequel out of Mikami. He doesn't really have a say. Otherwise he's going to have to pack his bags again and find another publisher to join up with again, and I seriously doubt that's his plan after only one game. The man has a family, after all.

Do I think a sequel won't be happening? No, it may happen. (Though I very much doubt it will be announced soon). But I think a new IP is also a strong possibility.


New IPs cost too much money. Bethesda is a corporation, and they're going to want to get as much as they can out of TEW before they axe it, and if they think they can still turn a profit on a sequel, they're going to do it.

I know I keep using other companies as examples, but the reason we got two sequels to Final Fantasy XIII had absolutely nothing to do with the first game's success (because in fact it sold quite poorly in comparison to expectations and how much it cost to make) and everything to do with them needing to recoup the money they lost building the Crystal Tools engine. I know that Tango didn't have to build a new engine for TEW, but the game was in production for four years, and they had to alter id tech 5 so drastically that they may as well have spent the time to just make their own engine.

We'll have to see what happens at TGS, I suppose.
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Re: Tango hiring for next project, likely using Unreal Engin

Postby Jocifer666 » Aug 23, 2015 5:25 pm

Mikami spoke about how difficult ID Tech 5 was numerous times, so it makes total sense that they would use a different engine for their follow up game- TEW or not.

Please remember to keep on topic guys, heh- we don't want to derail too many of our threads, do we :)? But I will say, all of the video game stores near me still have the game for sale at the full price- so not all of it is discounted. You guys are reading way too much into Metacritic and sales too, if I may. Not all studios function the same way- and you also have to understand that websites/journalists/whoever are paid to write both positive and negative reviews about games. I used to write for a horror movie blog, when I interned at Troma. I was offered 150 bucks to write a negative review for a rival company's movie I never saw. I turned it down because it was dishonest- but others didn't. It happens all the time, both accounts :). It's not a conspiracy theory, it's just how the industry works. Also: Building a fan base is just as important as sales or reviews-even more so, pending subject. Look at Hannibal. It wouldn't have lasted three seasons, if it didn't have an enduring fanbase outside of NBC.

Also, I've said this before: Independent studios aren't as reliant on sales or reviews as larger ones are. They tend to invest more economically than large scale studios do- so they can work the same magic, but on a smaller scale. Part of their liberty.

I also do know that Tango and co. have talked about competing with a certain other Japanese horror title *cough *cough. Take that what you will :).

I'm not entirely sure if we'll see something at TGS, but whatever Tango holds for us: We'll learn about it soon. Those concept art leaks are definitely something though, as are their sudden absence :). If that was unused concept art for the first game, they would've been kept up, no problem. It's unused or unfinished, it's not their property anymore. They can show it. Why is it still being treated like it is Zenimax property, being revealed too soon :)?
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Re: Tango hiring for next project, likely using Unreal Engin

Postby Jocifer666 » Aug 23, 2015 7:16 pm

And I'm calling it again: Johanas directs TEW 2, while Mikami produces it :).
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Re: Tango hiring for next project, likely using Unreal Engin

Postby Autoignition » Aug 23, 2015 7:55 pm

I think it would've been hard for Johanas to direct this game when he's spent the six months after the first game's release writing and directing the Kidman DLCs and then took a mini vacation after their release. ;) Who was directing the sequel while he was busy?

I follow this man too closely on Twitter for news on this game, I'm sorry. :lol: He might be labeled assistant director, though. I could see that.
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Re: Tango hiring for next project, likely using Unreal Engin

Postby Jocifer666 » Aug 24, 2015 6:07 pm

True that, we shall see though :). Assistant Director Johanas does have a nice ring to it. Perhaps it's time to bother him, or Nakumura some more :)? Tweet that concept art to Johanas! See what he says :).
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Re: Tango hiring for next project, likely using Unreal Engin

Postby Autoignition » Aug 24, 2015 10:33 pm

I tweeted him last night asking if Tango/Bethesda was going to be showing stuff at TGS again this year, and he told me that he wasn't allowed to give out that kind of information. Only Bethesda could announce that. I'm pretty sure he'd give me a similar answer about the pictures, which sucks. :(
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Re: Tango hiring for next project, likely using Unreal Engin

Postby Rikitatsu » Aug 26, 2015 3:50 am

Autoignition wrote:
Rikitatsu wrote:1) How do you know Mobius murdered the staff/patients/cops in the prologue? It was shown clearly that Ruvik did it.


The Administrator plain tells us so in The Assignment. Here's the exact quote I pulled from when I wrote that:

"You won't be alone. You'll be with your team from KPD. You'll get a call on the radio reporting an incident at Beacon. Everything will be arranged."

What we see is Ruvik killing those officers' consciousnesses inside of STEM, not the murder of their actual physical bodies.

I dunno, I understood it as him using his moles in KPD to fake an emergency call to lure Sebastian and co. Not to murder everyone there. I mean, is there a reason why'd he go that far? Murder all the patients, police, staff, just to get Sebastian to visit beacon?

What we see is Ruvik killing those officers' consciousnesses inside of STEM, not the murder of their actual physical bodies

I'm afraid this remains speculation.

...? Are you misremembering the ending? The game ends with Sebastian waking up, falling out of the STEM terminal, and meandering out of Beacon. Kidman confirms that it's the real world at the end of The Consequence.

No, I remember the ending clearly. Sebastian wakes up and walks away from Beacon, but who's to say that's reality? It could be an inception-esque dream within a dream. Julie saying it's the real world doesn't mean she is right. Maybe she is also within STEM.

Judging from Ruvik's MO and the way he likes to play with his prey like a cat, my assumption was that he recreated the scene at Beacon to be the same inside of STEM to make the transition from real world to STEM as smooth as possible and fuck with everyone's heads a little more because it's less clear when everything just devolved into nonsense. The intro being the way it was left Sebastian wondering if someone did something to him after he'd gotten knocked unconscious -- it wasn't like he took a step or passed a barrier and suddenly out of nowhere everything was ridiculous.

See. there is a contradiction here. How would he know what the scene from the real world looked like so he can re-create it?

The tl;dr version of that is, yes, someone went and fetched everyone from the squad cars and brought them inside of Beacon. You see that in the very start of chapter 2 where Seb has a brief glimpse of reality and sees himself being wheeled through the hospital on a gurney. Also, Mobius gave everyone an injection compound to protect them from STEM, remember? The only thing is that Kidman's was botched because they thought of her as being expendable, so she's the only one who gets pulled into la la land while everyone else at Mobius is still milling around and doing their thing. I don't think anyone realizes that hers got botched, though, which is why Myra doesn't understand why she's so out of it and confused in the ending. (Either that or another conspiracy theory I have cooked up about this all being Myra's doing, but that's for another time. :P)

But if they fetched them from the car, one would assume they (Mobius) are on-site at the STEM terminal, how would they allow Leslie to walk away? And did Mobius give everyone an injection? I thought it was just Julie, hence why she didn't get any headaches or started transforming like Seb and Joseph.

I always found it weird how Mobius will just leave the STEM terminal sitting there with all the bodies including Sebastian plugged into it, and leave the scene for the Police and the world to see. It goes against their ambitions to control the world. If I may be speculative, it doesn't make sense because the reality in TEW's end is just another dream within STEM. It also explains Mobius's staff nonchalant demeanor I talked about in my previous post.

Someone asked Johanas about that on Twitter, and his response was (and I'm paraphrasing), "those posters are more of a statement on who Sebastian is as a person than they are an actual account of the events that happened." I took that to mean that those posters are Sebastian's attempts at rationalizing what's happening and detective-ing a story together so that he can find a solution.

I dunno man, too vague... Why can't Tango just go out and explain the story already? :evil: At least, clear the the mysterious stuff like the posters, and let us put the puzzle pieces together.

It wasn't just for America. I've never seen an article cite that the record was just in America. It was total sales. This means that TEW beat sales figures for Dead Space and possibly even The Last of Us for the first month of its release. That's not a small thing. And just because Dying Light beat out their record a few months later doesn't make that accomplishment less meaningful. You need to set a record for someone to be able to break it, after all.

It was definitely just for America, believe me.
It's from the NPD, which cover the US market. http://www.siliconera.com/2014/11/13/ev ... sales-u-s/
And I doubt TLoU was considered Survival Horror by NPD, otherwise TEW would never broken that record. TLoU sold gangbusters at it's debut month. Around 1 Million VS TEW's 380K.

When they announced the Dishonored sequel at E3, they gave no projected date. Just a vague "2016" which means that it's subject to change. At the time of E3, that meant that the game was at least a year away from completion.

I wouldn't come to that conclusion myself, they said they are ready to show gameplay soon, so the game must sufficiently far into development for that. And you bring up Dishonored, look at the time it took for them to announce a sequel. They have the gameplay, lore, etc.. already built with the first game, but that doesn't mean they churn sequels out that fast.

If that's true, then why didn't they also show off Rage or Brink or Wet or Hunted or Rogue Warrior or any of other IPs they've abandoned just in the past generation alone? I guess you could make the argument that they're only showing stuff from this gen, but seriously, if Bethesda wanted to distance themselves from TEW, it wouldn't be hard for them to do so. They keep bringing it up. They keep showing it off and promoting it, and the Twitter account is still active and tweeting.

Brink, Wet, Hunted, and Rogue Warrior are technically not Bethesda games. (I mean, not developed by them, just published). Which leaves RAGE, I would guess they didn't show it because they are showing a new idSoftware game already (DOOM). And plus, as you say, it's kinda old.

I worked at Gamestop for eight years. I have restocked and realphabatized and price changed games so many times that it got to the point where I knew the price point of nearly any given game in the store just off the top of my head without having to look it up. Most games drop to $35 or less within the first two months of their release. It took The Evil Within at least four or five months to hit the $40 threshold (though it did go on sale quite frequently, but I'm talking about the permanent price point). The fact that it's $20 now 10 months after its release, with all of the DLCs out and a leaked GOTY edition on the way and a sequel possibly being announced in less than a month, means nothing to me.

I'll concede that I didn't know that, sorry. I heard a couple of friends expressing shock at the price cut, so I assumed it was abnormal to have a drastic price cut this soon. My bad. In my country games don't get any meaningful price cuts until at least 2 years have passed.

I know I keep using other companies as examples, but the reason we got two sequels to Final Fantasy XIII had absolutely nothing to do with the first game's success (because in fact it sold quite poorly in comparison to expectations and how much it cost to make) and everything to do with them needing to recoup the money they lost building the Crystal Tools engine. I know that Tango didn't have to build a new engine for TEW, but the game was in production for four years, and they had to alter id tech 5 so drastically that they may as well have spent the time to just make their own engine.

I don't think it's fair to compare FF with TEW.
No matter how it under-performs relative to expectations, FF sells a lot, so even if they made sequels to a game that underperformed it will still sell well. It's Final Fantasy after all.

The same cannot be said about TEW. Lukewarm critical reception (to say the least), and decent sales doesn't guarantee that making sequels will recoup the costs. Sometimes it's better to save Time, Money, and Manpower to a new venture that might actually be a big success.

Please remember to keep on topic guys, heh- we don't want to derail too many of our threads, do we :)?

Sorry about that.
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Re: Tango hiring for next project, likely using Unreal Engin

Postby Autoignition » Aug 26, 2015 2:42 pm

I'm so sorry to keep this discussion going in the wrong place, but I feel like it's such an important conversation to have because of the nature of the game itself and its story.

Rikitatsu wrote:I dunno, I understood it as him using his moles in KPD to fake an emergency call to lure Sebastian and co. Not to murder everyone there. I mean, is there a reason why'd he go that far? Murder all the patients, police, staff, just to get Sebastian to visit beacon?


Oh, that's actually a thing that I guess probably wouldn't make sense to anyone who hasn't studied criminal justice/law enforcement. The situation has to be really dire and urgent to call in detectives to an open crime scene like that. Patrolmen/beat cops are the ones who respond to incidents, and they're the ones who make the vast majority of arrests. Most detectives don't even carry handcuffs with them, because they have no reason to, really.* Sebastian does because idk I guess he just likes it. :P But Joseph doesn't, if you notice. Neither does Kidman.

So, yeah, Mobius had to make sure shit got really really dire in order to ensure that KCPD dispatch got Seb & co. over there. As far as we know, Kidman is the only person from Mobius in the KCPD. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

*source: I have two degrees in criminal justice.

No, I remember the ending clearly. Sebastian wakes up and walks away from Beacon, but who's to say that's reality? It could be an inception-esque dream within a dream. Julie saying it's the real world doesn't mean she is right. Maybe she is also within STEM.


Well, if you're going to take that kind of an attitude about it, then why believe anything that anyone says about anything? Maybe STEM isn't real at all, Mobius doesn't exist, and we're really just playing a delusion inside of Sebastian's mind while he sits in a padded room at Beacon!

You have to give the line-by-line script the benefit of the doubt and trust that those lines exist to serve a specific narrative function. Otherwise, we'll just be talking nonsense at each other for the rest of eternity.

See. there is a contradiction here. How would he know what the scene from the real world looked like so he can re-create it?


There's no contradiction there. Ruvik can see into the thoughts and memories of everyone in STEM. We get told that over and over again by several different sources. The first responders on the scene got pulled into STEM when Jimenez activated the wireless system, so Ruvik could dig around in their heads and see everything that they saw when they walked in.

But if they fetched them from the car, one would assume they (Mobius) are on-site at the STEM terminal, how would they allow Leslie to walk away? And did Mobius give everyone an injection? I thought it was just Julie, hence why she didn't get any headaches or started transforming like Seb and Joseph.


Either Mobius gave everyone an injection, or they were able to turn off the wireless STEM from a separate, distant location before the rest of the team stepped into Beacon. That's one of those little details that doesn't really matter, in the end. All that matters is that Seb & co. are in STEM, and Mobius is not. Actually, thinking about it now, it would make more sense if they were able to turn it off before they went in, considering they had to have removed Sebastian from the wireless frequency in order to plug him into their wired terminal in the first place. But, again, in an overall sense, it doesn't really matter.

As far as we know, Leslie didn't just walk away. He had to have escaped somehow, and with Ruvik all up in him like that, it could have been violently. Or maybe he was able to exploit STEM in order to do it, which seems to be what Sebastian's ending was implying, as well as the second torn letter from The Consequence. "I envision a world where the mere glance of the eye will allow me to spread onto the next. [...] I now have a vessel in all of you," he said. Kidman is marked. The Administrator is marked. For all we know, Myra is marked too (after all, we never get to see her hands because she's wearing gloves). He could have done some serious body hopping in order to finagle an escape.

What it comes down to in the end is that we don't know for sure, but once again, it doesn't really matter. All that matters is that Ruvik is in Leslie's body and is a serious threat because of his continued domination of STEM.

I always found it weird how Mobius will just leave the STEM terminal sitting there with all the bodies including Sebastian plugged into it, and leave the scene for the Police and the world to see. It goes against their ambitions to control the world. If I may be speculative, it doesn't make sense because the reality in TEW's end is just another dream within STEM. It also explains Mobius's staff nonchalant demeanor I talked about in my previous post.


Have you considered the possibility that they want it to be found so that they can frame Jimenez as a scapegoat? Mobius has all of the data for the wireless STEM system now, and they have the ability to turn it on and off whenever they want. They don't need the wired terminal anymore. Beacon has been under fire for malpractice and the abuse of their patients for years. By Mobius leaving the wired STEM and the corpses for the police to find, they can bury Beacon along with Jimenez and continue forward with the wireless STEM on their own. Remember, Mobius were the ones who made Jimenez Director of Beacon Hospital in the first place. I don't think that they did that for his own personal benefit. They don't seem to do ANYTHING for any one person's personal benefit. Mobius only cares about Mobius, and Jimenez has been a loose end to tie up for a long time. Now that he's dead and they don't need Beacon anymore, let it all get swallowed up by scandal. Who gives a shit? Not Mobius, that's for damn sure.

It was definitely just for America, believe me.
It's from the NPD, which cover the US market. http://www.siliconera.com/2014/11/13/ev ... sales-u-s/
And I doubt TLoU was considered Survival Horror by NPD, otherwise TEW would never broken that record. TLoU sold gangbusters at it's debut month. Around 1 Million VS TEW's 380K.


I concede your point, then. This is the first article I've ever seen specify it was US numbers, and a few of them even said "worldwide sales." The note about it on the game's wikipedia article doesn't specify, either. I don't know where you got 380k from, though. Unless that was the previous record...? In which case, we know that TEW sold AT LEAST that much but in all likeliness sold a lot more, considering that it sold 305k in the US just in its first week alone.

I wouldn't come to that conclusion myself, they said they are ready to show gameplay soon, so the game must sufficiently far into development for that. And you bring up Dishonored, look at the time it took for them to announce a sequel. They have the gameplay, lore, etc.. already built with the first game, but that doesn't mean they churn sequels out that fast.


Just because they're ready to show gameplay doesn't mean anything. Gameplay is, like, one of the first things you try to get going in development. Naughty Dog has been showing Uncharted 4 gameplay since last year, and that game's not coming out until 2016. Without a solid release date announced yet this late in the year, I will eat my hat if Dishonored 2 comes out Q1 of next year. If not, and it comes out Q2 or beyond, well, then that means it will have been at least a year since its announcement at E3.

I don't know why it took them so long to announce the sequel to Dishonored, but considering the fact that Bethesda wants to start releasing four titles a year now, I guess it kind of makes sense in the timeline.

Brink, Wet, Hunted, and Rogue Warrior are technically not Bethesda games. (I mean, not developed by them, just published). Which leaves RAGE, I would guess they didn't show it because they are showing a new idSoftware game already (DOOM). And plus, as you say, it's kinda old.


I would argue that it doesn't really matter if they weren't developed by a Bethesda-owned dev team, because it still has their name on it. The real link between all of these games isn't that they were made by indie teams and published by Bethesda -- it's that they were all goddamn awful. Like I said, if Bethesda thought they could continue to make a profit off of them, they would've given those indie studios more money for sequels. None of them got sequels, because they were all f'ing terrible. Which is why you don't see Bethesda associating with those titles or working with those indie teams anymore.

I don't think it's fair to compare FF with TEW.
No matter how it under-performs relative to expectations, FF sells a lot, so even if they made sequels to a game that underperformed it will still sell well. It's Final Fantasy after all.

The same cannot be said about TEW. Lukewarm critical reception (to say the least), and decent sales doesn't guarantee that making sequels will recoup the costs. Sometimes it's better to save Time, Money, and Manpower to a new venture that might actually be a big success.


You're really hung up on review scores. Like... really, really hung up on them. Please don't make me go through Metacritic and pull out every single game that got so-so reviews that got a sequel. I mean, I'll do it if I have to, but I won't like it. :P Also, please remember that a 75 on Metacritic is still classified as having gotten favorable reviews. And also remember that the two really big names in the game review business, Game Informer and IGN, gave TEW pretty outstanding scores. Game Informer gave it 9/10 and IGN gave it 8.7/10. Any schmuck on the internet with a blog can write a review and slap a number on it, but those two publications are where the vast majority of the wider audience of gamers get their reviews from.
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Re: Tango hiring for next project, likely using Unreal Engin

Postby Rikitatsu » Aug 28, 2015 2:31 pm

Autoignition, let me first say that I'm extremely impressed by your ability to notice details and piece plot threads together, the best I've seen so far on this forum. The more I read of your replies the more I realize just how much of TEW's story that I've either forgotten or hadn't payed attention to at all. Mad Kudos to you. I'll concede to most of your points, while there are a few things I still disagree with you on, I don't have enough energy nor passion to continue the discussion.


Here's something that one of Tango's modelers made, an impressive real-time morphing tech in UE4.

phpBB [video]


I'm hoping it would be used in whatever Tango might be cooking next, because it looks super cool. I'm tired of games showing monster transformations off-screen.
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Re: Tango hiring for next project, likely using Unreal Engin

Postby Morir es vivir » Aug 29, 2015 1:49 am

Rikitatsu wrote:Autoignition, let me first say that I'm extremely impressed by your ability to notice details and piece plot threads together, the best I've seen so far on this forum


Agreed. It's ridiculously fukin good. Sometimes i think Autoignition may be Nakamura herself manifesting here to slap some faces :P (or somebody else from Tango) Btw that test looks pretty cool! Vampire/Demon game incoming :?:

Edit: Also, Marcus Morph? What's up with that, as of underworld? hmmm maybe he's just playing with stuff he likes on UE4
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