Real Puzzles, anyone?

(Discuss the game)

Should Project Zwei include real puzzles?

Yes, I love hard puzzles in addition to some straight forward ones
18
95%
Maybe easy, straight forward ones only
1
5%
No, I don't like puzzles at all!
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 19

Re: Real Puzzles, anyone?

Postby Saint Ste7en » Mar 09, 2013 5:48 pm

I've looked everywhere and I don't see anything that leads me to think this is a "massive investment." Granted it's in the early stages of development, but I would imagine if this game is going to be "massive" there would be more PR. Targeting the mainstream audience? How many people even know about this game's development aside from classic survival/horror fans and Mikami followers?
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Re: Real Puzzles, anyone?

Postby PanamaRed » Mar 09, 2013 7:47 pm

Saint Ste7en wrote:I've looked everywhere and I don't see anything that leads me to think this is a "massive investment." Granted it's in the early stages of development, but I would imagine if this game is going to be "massive" there would be more PR. Targeting the mainstream audience? How many people even know about this game's development aside from classic survival/horror fans and Mikami followers?


Well they did say that they were making a AAA game which usually means a game with high production values which means a lot of money is going to be spent on the development of the game. Also, Mikami might not be as popular as lets say Hideo Kojima but he is nevertheless pretty big in the video game industry.
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Re: Real Puzzles, anyone?

Postby Saint Ste7en » Mar 09, 2013 8:35 pm

PanamaRed wrote:Well they did say that they were making a AAA game which usually means a game with high production values which means a lot of money is going to be spent on the development of the game. Also, Mikami might not be as popular as lets say Hideo Kojima but he is nevertheless pretty big in the video game industry.

When and to whom did they say it was a AAA game- I haven't heard.
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Re: Real Puzzles, anyone?

Postby Rikitatsu » Mar 10, 2013 8:30 am

Saint Ste7en wrote:I've looked everywhere and I don't see anything that leads me to think this is a "massive investment." Granted it's in the early stages of development, but I would imagine if this game is going to be "massive" there would be more PR. Targeting the mainstream audience? How many people even know about this game's development aside from classic survival/horror fans and Mikami followers?


"Is it closer to the triple-A budget of a Japanese studio or the triple-A budget of an American studio?"

Mikami: "It's closer to the American budget."


Source.

Hearing all this, it's no surprise that Tango is working on a new project for Bethesda -- the sort of AAA title that the publisher's known for, of course. "That's the only sort of title we're interested in," Takahashi (from Bethesda) said. "Any such project is going to involve tens of millions of dollars either way, so instead of cutting dev time and features and hoping for a million copies sold, it's better to take your time, make something great, and aim for five million instead. We believe that there's actually less risk when you do it that way."

Source

I also think I've read an interview somewhere that had Bethesda saying this was a big investment, but I'm not sure where exactly.

Regardless, how do you want the game to have more PR when it wasn't even announced yet? We just have a codename and some artworks, which were probably posted for the sake of recruitment.

Also, your last point could be attributed to any new IP in existence... Dishonored generated interest amongst gamers due to the great advertising Bethesda did over the time since its announcement, but I bet you very few people anticipated "Arkane's new IP under Bethesda" before its announcement.
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Re: Real Puzzles, anyone?

Postby Saint Ste7en » Mar 10, 2013 2:43 pm

Thanks for the link! Looks like I *haven't* looked "everywhere." :P

As far as this game goes I, personally, want to put stupid speculations and assumptions aside and just think about the facts and public statements. Saying that, I don't care about the arguments of "It's unlikely." I like classic style survival/horror games as well as Resident Evil 4 so I won't get burned either way, but I feel making assumptions and passing them of as facts is silly. That includes saying this,
Rikitatsu wrote:I assure you they will try to appeal to a wide-audience, and won't risk it for the sake of "Old-School" horror fans who want fixed cameras.
Trying to 'assure' me without any facts doesn't pass, but with here you've sold me with facts.

And very good point! I *didn't* know about Dishonored's IP at all until it was announced and that certainly was a large budget game.
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Re: Real Puzzles, anyone?

Postby Rikitatsu » Mar 10, 2013 3:04 pm

Saint Ste7en wrote:I like classic style survival/horror games as well as Resident Evil 4 so I won't get burned either way

Me too, personally, it would be perfect if it was an evolution of RE4's style, but scarier. Puzzles would be great, but if they're not there it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.

The most exciting aspects of Project ZWEI for me is not the horror, or whether it brings back the feeling of the RE classics, but two things:

- Great gunplay: Mikami made RE4 and Vanquish, and those two sit at the top of the TPS genre as far as I'm concerned, so it would be great to see how Project ZWEI will fare in terms of Gunplay, after Mikami made Vanquish I'm pretty sure he acquired even more experience working in the genre.

-Great atmosphere: The art director behind Okami and REmake is directing the art in ZWEI, Plus, Nakamura (The Apprentice director at Tango) is very much into Urban Exploration, which makes me believe this will be one of the most atmospheric games, ever! The artwork released already looks so good.


*I realize I went on off-topic, so forgive me*
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Re: Real Puzzles, anyone?

Postby Saint Ste7en » Mar 10, 2013 6:50 pm

No, trying to "evolve" RE4 is what killed RE5. The money system, upgrades, bring it all back and leave it alone.

The biggest mistake in Resident Evil is that it wasn't so much puzzles as it is finding things before they are needed. Thus breaking the game to where the player has to keep returning to the safe-room and managing items. Thankfully the later Resident Evil games had less of a problem with it. Resident Evil 0 still used the same inventory system, but solved the problem by allowing players to leave items on the floor. Resident Evil 4, on the other hand, had a new inventory system that made managing items fun, creative, and less irritating. At some points, organizing the inventory became a puzzle in itself. "How am I going to make room in my inventory for this new gun?" Resident Evil 5 tried to "evolve" RE4 and killed itself with the inventory relapse and to compensate. Granted, there were no keys to put in the inventory and you didn't have to pause to switch weapons, but it was FAR from efficient.

Honestly, I would prefer puzzles, like the ones shown in the original post. Mainly the kind of puzzles that are shoved in your face and you have to *figure out* what to do. For example, that cube puzzle from Silent Hill 2 , shown in the OP. I saw the cube, I wiggled it around and just went into the next room. Took me about 2 minutes to even realize the connection between the cube and the room, and then another 4 minutes to find the right solution. A puzzle that teases the brain every now and then is always good for survival/horror.

But if they go for puzzles they need to go all the way. Resident Evil: Revelations tried to have puzzles, but they were so mild that it's embarrassing. Only one puzzles was actually memorable and that was the coin puzzles (the only one that actually deserved to be in a survival/horror game). All of the other puzzles were incredibly forgettable hence, I have forgotten them.
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Re: Real Puzzles, anyone?

Postby Rikitatsu » Mar 10, 2013 7:11 pm

Saint Ste7en wrote:No, trying to "evolve" RE4 is what killed RE5. The money system, upgrades, bring it all back and leave it alone.

The biggest mistake in Resident Evil is that it wasn't so much puzzles as it is finding things before they are needed. Thus breaking the game to where the player has to keep returning to the safe-room and managing items. Thankfully the later Resident Evil games had less of a problem with it. Resident Evil 0 still used the same inventory system, but solved the problem by allowing players to leave items on the floor. Resident Evil 4, on the other hand, had a new inventory system that made managing items fun, creative, and less irritating. At some points, organizing the inventory became a puzzle in itself. "How am I going to make room in my inventory for this new gun?" Resident Evil 5 tried to "evolve" RE4 and killed itself with the inventory relapse and to compensate. Granted, there were no keys to put in the inventory and you didn't have to pause to switch weapons, but it was FAR from efficient.

What killed RE5 was bad design. (and that's probably because it was Mikami-less and had different people working on it.)

Evolution is not bad, I don't see how you can say that, if Mikami finds a way to improve the already great formula of RE4 then I'd say bring it! Why are you afraid of change? If it was another developer then you may have a point, but its the guy who made it in the first place, whatever change he is going to apply will most likely be a good thing, he knows what he is doing.
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Re: Real Puzzles, anyone?

Postby Nemesis85 » Mar 11, 2013 12:29 am

Well, I don't want to sound like a douche, but this thread is bout "Real puzzles, anyone" and as i can see, some of us or going wayy off-topic here.
If you guys like to continue your assumptions about what this game is going to look, I will sincerely appreciate if you guys switch to another thread, or make a new one.
Thanks.
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Re: Real Puzzles, anyone?

Postby Rikitatsu » Mar 11, 2013 6:06 am

^ Yeah, sorry about that.
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