Evil Within Ending Discussion (Untagged Spoilers)

(Discuss the game)

Re: Evil Within Ending Discussion (Untagged Spoilers)

Postby rushinplay » Dec 27, 2014 12:17 pm

Finally finished the game last night (so I can finally contribute some thoughts)

At the end, where Leslie seems to have more control of himself, doesn't seem like such a nutcase- I think the consciousness transition was complete, Ruvik swapped himself out with Leslie and was leading Seb to the final battle, it also helps to make sense of the complete WTF moments happening as you fight Ruvik at the end (he is no longer controlling that "world" as he has already left, I think you're just fighting imaginations in SEB's brain [edit- oops, leslie was gone at this point, ruvik enveloped him into water by that point] because the insanity is obviously gone up a few clicks, like the boss fight being what Seb would IMAGINE that hardest boss fight might be like. and after you defeat him- you smash Ruvik's brain with leslie's consciousness inside it) "you can't keep me here", Ruvik keeps saying as he tries to kill Seb, also Marcelo told Seb that only Ruvik has control there, makes the decent make a little more sense. Seb has 0 control.

I don't think anything was left of Ruvik but his brain, Seb was hooked up to the STEM before the game ever started, Julie was never actually a detective but maybe some kind of doctor or scientist charged with stopping the consciousness swap, which she concluded she could only do by killing Leslie (since there was no other way out) when other attempts to wake him up failed. She was terrible with a gun, I imagine she was a doctor. She was with the people who hooked Seb up to the original STEM machine, at the beginning of the game, after Ruvik kills those three cops and sneaks up behind him- he puts him into another STEM machine, there could be many of these you keep slipping further into, the scenes where the tubs dump 3 zombies and you must kill them and pull that link from their brain- this was seb removing himself from another layer of the STEM. I believe there's one scene in the entire game thats NOT in a STEM machine, it's the flash where you see Seb pointing a gun at a tub but you don't see who's in it, you don't see anything else but I imagine he was subdued by men who were afraid Ruvik might actually complete the swap and hooked Seb up for the first time (with Julie and Joe who was probably Sebs real life partner, they made it appear as though Julie was a cop when really, she just needed a hired gun to find leslie and get him out, or as she later decided, kill him)

so yes, at the end- basically, you failed to prevent the swap, and Ruvik is to the last layer of the STEM between him and the real world. The DLC should be fun.

It's kind of confusing, but not as much as say- silent hill, with the cult of samuel being behind silent hill and not even really being a part of the first game (because sony wasn't going to get away with a game based on satan worship, they had to disguise it)
Last edited by rushinplay on Dec 29, 2014 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Evil Within Ending Discussion (Untagged Spoilers)

Postby Jocifer666 » Dec 28, 2014 10:54 pm

You're points are interesting indeed, hmmmmm.
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Re: Evil Within Ending Discussion (Untagged Spoilers)

Postby Garoo » Jan 01, 2015 9:51 am

It seems to me, that this game has more sci-fi elements in it than supernatural powers/magic abilities. It's leaning more to Inception/Resident Evil logic, rather than Silent Hill ones.

I take it the entire game is within a dream state, with the only exception is when Sebastian woke up and saw Kidman telling him to lay low, but then he back to dream state again.

The beginning of the game, Sebastian, Kidman, Joseph and Connely are in the 1st layer of someone's dream state, presumably Ruvik's (which in the real world, he's nothing but a brain). This goes until Ruvik found Sebastian and the others, and knock him out. At this point, it's kinda cloudy as to who the ones hooking him to the STEM machine. There's also a possibility he's not hooked into another STEM when Seb was knocked out by Ruvik, but instead just sent down to the underground by someone.

After this, Sebastian is in the Sadist's room. I presume at this point, [if he's hooked to another STEM], he's already inside someone else's dream state from the 1st layer (so we're in the 2nd layer when Sebastian is with the Sadist), with Sadist as Ruvik's personification. Taking on how Inception works, when Seb is already at the surface again, with the seemingly apocalyptic is going on, I take it that the dreamer's condition at the 1st layer is worsen (probably experiencing those cardiac arrests like the other subjects), thus he/she can no longer maintain the 'architect' role in their own dream state (thus everything is getting ruined). The reason he/she is capable of surviving that long in the dream state, if we take the theory in Inception again, it is said that when within the dream state, time goes slower, in which 1 second in real world can be 1 minute in dream state. This could also support on how the places keep changing. It took place according to the dreamer's most strong memories. [Though this theory is just a hunch, I have no proof to this]

The safe place where we unlock lockers, upgrade abilities, I think this is Sebastian's own mind state, separated temporarily from whoever dream state he's in at the moment, by accessing it thru special mirrors. These mirrors, serving as portals might also be the work of the ones in the real world, giving Sebastian some kind of help, maybe by giving medication or other sci-fi technology never mentioned ingame. The reason it's getting deteriorated the more we closer to endgame, I think it's because it's not perfectly separating Sebastian's mind from others, thus giving these random information being showed there (missing person posters, newspaper about Ruvik's past/kidnappings/Sebastian's wife, etc).

The ending, I believe we back to the beginning of the game, in which we are in the 1st layer. This time, Ruvik is inside Leslie, since Leslie is presumably inside Ruvik's brain.

I take it Kidman is from other organization trying to stop Jimenez, who's trying to advancing the research about STEM he got from Ruvik. Or, Kidman is from the organization Jimenez is working with, and she's there to help him free himself from Ruvik's mind (so he can continue the STEM development under his name?). Seeing how Kidman resolved trying to kill Leslie in order to thwart Ruvik's plan when other plans seems to fail, it seems to me she's kinda a double agent... (spying as Sebastian's co-partner, as Jimenez's organization ally, and as another organization's agent to destroy STEM).

I hope all these confusions and theories will be answered with Kidman's DLC. It's so intriguing, honestly. At first, I saw this game story as somekind of random stories being packed into one giant messy story, leaving me really confused on what is actually going on because everything just doesn't make sense. (there's so few explanation ingame) But after seeing it from different perspective, there are actually decent theories which could tie together some of the dots.
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Re: Evil Within Ending Discussion (Untagged Spoilers)

Postby CandyLander » Jan 04, 2015 2:41 pm

I'd start off by saying that I believe the game has different "dream layers", but they might not work necessarily in the same way as Inception's do, with first layer, second layer, third layer and limbo.

It's safe to assume that, while some moments of the game have a thinner sense of dream, some are much deeper and protected by Ruvik. Moments like when Sebastian has glimpses of the scientists, throughout the game, and the Floriano mansion, respectively.

I'd also point out that I think time is relative between each individual layer. So, at the beggining of the game, you're in the first layer of the STEM. The world hasn't crumbled down yet. In this thin layer, you see Jimenez severely hurt, about to die. Then, in the deeper levels of the STEM, you meet Jimenez again and he's doing fine. Later on in the game, in the deeper STEM, Jimenez dies. Wouldn't it make sense that his death in the deep, thin and real world all take place in the same time? Because time goes by more leisurely the deeper you are in STEM.

That would also explain Sebastian seeing the guards getting shot in the asylum's halls both in the beggining and end of the game. The lower levels of the asylum (which is where the cameras are placed) are all in a lower level of the STEM. So Sebastian was both in the first and deep layers of the STEM. And only a few moments of being in the first layer (walking into the asylum, seeing Jimenez, getting knocked down) equivalates to hours of game. In the real world, the whole thing might have taken only taken a few minutes.

For last, in the Inception movie, there's a moment when, in the first layer, Edith Piaf is playing in a radio or something. And, consequently, the second layer is filled by the sound of Edith Piaf's music. A loud sound over the entire world. Wouldn't it make sense that Debussy is playing in the real world next to the STEM machines, which is why, in thinner levels of the STEM, we can actually hear it?

@edit:

It would also make sense that there are no layers. The end of the game is actualy in the real world and the reason why you see Ruvik/Leslie is because a part of Ruvik will be with Seb. forever, since the machine started the process of uniting their minds.
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Re: Evil Within Ending Discussion (Untagged Spoilers)

Postby Rikitatsu » Jan 06, 2015 7:52 pm

The layer theory is very interesting. Mikami also cited Inception as an inspiration behind TEW. So that makes it more credible.
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Re: Evil Within Ending Discussion (Untagged Spoilers)

Postby Ciprianyrfkr » Jan 12, 2015 11:01 pm

I have just finished the game about an hour ago and I think I have a theorie, first, they were all connected to the stem machine from the beginning, the missing posts said that Sebastian disappeard and then Joseph, trying to find him I think, the people from elk river who disappeard could have been the same who killed ruvik's sister or where involved when the doctor stoled ruvik's information, then, like before as been said, the ones who kidnapped the other ones were the rival organization who connected Sebastian to the machine, but they somehow wanted to control it completely, remember what they said in one of the flashbacks, the machine can't work without ruvik's brain, the monsters an all are representations of ruvik's unconsciousness and some of them are what it's left of the other experiments that he did with the first stem machine, somehow they are like the antibodies of that world, there are various layers, one is the layer of the stem machine from the rival company, and the other layer is where ruvik's mind is, that's why in the Asylum and the beginning he appears, he manage to drag that people from one layer to another, and if you remember the last time you are able to buy upgrades, you can see a robe with another symbol, and in some scenes you can see the name of a company, when kidman tells that no one can leave is because it could be a problem to the rival company , and while everyone else is dead, she decides that they should let live Sebastian, that's why when he's leaving the Asylum he sees leslie with ruvik's mind, he is still in the stem machine but the other world has already been destroyed
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Re: Evil Within Ending Discussion (Untagged Spoilers)

Postby TheLanternMan » Jan 23, 2015 6:22 am

Here's a theory: In the end, Ruvik/Leslie is (maybe unknowingly) now the submissive mind; Sebastian gained dominance through defeating the Ruvik boss and/or Kidman's help. This would explain the ending, presuming Sebastian is still in the STEM world.

(More specifically, the absence/replacement of Ruvik's monsters with "actual" people. Also, during Sebastian's last headache, it is likely Ruvik/Leslie teleported rather than just walked out of sight in only a second or two - meaning that Ruvik/Leslie has retained at least some power; perhaps Sebastian has only gained dominance over the STEM world's appearance, but has yet to learn that has the potential to control it completely.)
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Re: Evil Within Ending Discussion (Untagged Spoilers)

Postby dan76 » Jan 23, 2015 4:08 pm

After playing through the game again I would now agree that everyone is already hooked up to the stem at the start of the game. This was a theory that I didn't like, but after watching all the cutscenes it seems pretty obvious now.

So, are we to believe the newspapers and missing posters are all real, that these things actually happened in the real world? That's my current grasp of it anyhow.
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Re: Evil Within Ending Discussion (Untagged Spoilers)

Postby CandyLander » Jan 25, 2015 11:40 pm

dan76 wrote:After playing through the game again I would now agree that everyone is already hooked up to the stem at the start of the game. This was a theory that I didn't like, but after watching all the cutscenes it seems pretty obvious now.

So, are we to believe the newspapers and missing posters are all real, that these things actually happened in the real world? That's my current grasp of it anyhow.


I think so, that's why Kidman's missing post is from when she was younger. Because she went missing younger, and then brainwashed or whatever was needed to make her become a secret agent.
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Re: Evil Within Ending Discussion (Untagged Spoilers)

Postby liontamer » Feb 23, 2015 5:17 pm

What I would like to know is, why is Leslie put in STEM if Ruvik could use him to get out of it?
The biggest question, in my opinion, is whether we see the real World in the end as Sebastian or not. It really could be anything. I think the former is more likely, and I think the headache we experience in the end is a symptom of being in STEM, but there's no confirmation for any theory.
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