LTTP: The Evil Within/Pyschobreak - Finally! (No DLC stuff)

(Discuss the game)

Re: LTTP: The Evil Within/Pyschobreak - Finally! (No DLC stu

Postby Autoignition » Aug 16, 2015 5:31 am

ghostcall wrote:or bethesda mentality is what screwed this game.

the game is trying to appeal both casual such as Last of us or any movie interactive fan base and hardcore audience......

the game does not have a clear vision what it wants to be.


I have a big problem with this response. How on earth does it appeal to casual/TLOU fans when there are very few actual cutscenes, no QTEs, and the entire story is presented in fragmented files and recordings that the player is forced to put together to understand (and very few actually do) instead of long-winded dialogues? It has the storytelling style of Fatal Frame, the gameplay style of Resident Evil 4, an a metric asston of visual environmental cues from various Silent Hill games. One of the biggest criticisms of the game is that it's "too hard" and that there's not enough ammo and supplies to make it through without really being careful.

To me, that sounds like it has a very clear picture of what it wants to be. It wants to be survival horror. And that's what it is.
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Re: LTTP: The Evil Within/Pyschobreak - Finally! (No DLC stu

Postby Morir es vivir » Aug 16, 2015 1:40 pm

Autoignition wrote:
ghostcall wrote:or bethesda mentality is what screwed this game.

the game is trying to appeal both casual such as Last of us or any movie interactive fan base and hardcore audience......

the game does not have a clear vision what it wants to be.


I have a big problem with this response. How on earth does it appeal to casual/TLOU fans when there are very few actual cutscenes, no QTEs, and the entire story is presented in fragmented files and recordings that the player is forced to put together to understand (and very few actually do) instead of long-winded dialogues? It has the storytelling style of Fatal Frame, the gameplay style of Resident Evil 4, an a metric asston of visual environmental cues from various Silent Hill games. One of the biggest criticisms of the game is that it's "too hard" and that there's not enough ammo and supplies to make it through without really being careful.

To me, that sounds like it has a very clear picture of what it wants to be. It wants to be survival horror. And that's what it is.


I wish i could speak like that.

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Re: LTTP: The Evil Within/Pyschobreak - Finally! (No DLC stu

Postby ghostcall » Aug 23, 2015 3:50 am

Autoignition wrote:
ghostcall wrote:or bethesda mentality is what screwed this game.

the game is trying to appeal both casual such as Last of us or any movie interactive fan base and hardcore audience......

the game does not have a clear vision what it wants to be.


I have a big problem with this response. How on earth does it appeal to casual/TLOU fans when there are very few actual cutscenes, no QTEs, and the entire story is presented in fragmented files and recordings that the player is forced to put together to understand (and very few actually do) instead of long-winded dialogues? It has the storytelling style of Fatal Frame, the gameplay style of Resident Evil 4, an a metric asston of visual environmental cues from various Silent Hill games. One of the biggest criticisms of the game is that it's "too hard" and that there's not enough ammo and supplies to make it through without really being careful.

To me, that sounds like it has a very clear picture of what it wants to be. It wants to be survival horror. And that's what it is.


the whole moving forward to trigger cutscenes or scripted events with completely linear map isn't attempt to make it movie interactive?

that exactly how movie interactive use their cutscenes you don't need QTE to make it look like a movie interactive game.

chapter 1 is the biggest example of movie interactive "cinematic" too many cutscenes/scripted events..........

you can argue that chapter 1 is a "tutorial" however i consider chapter 2 is actually the tutorial explains to you how the game mechanics works.
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Re: LTTP: The Evil Within/Pyschobreak - Finally! (No DLC stu

Postby Autoignition » Aug 23, 2015 3:55 pm

ghostcall wrote:the whole moving forward to trigger cutscenes or scripted events with completely linear map isn't attempt to make it movie interactive?

that exactly how movie interactive use their cutscenes you don't need QTE to make it look like a movie interactive game.

chapter 1 is the biggest example of movie interactive "cinematic" too many cutscenes/scripted events..........

you can argue that chapter 1 is a "tutorial" however i consider chapter 2 is actually the tutorial explains to you how the game mechanics works.


? No? Do you play video games? "moving forward to trigger cutscenes or scripted events" is how every game that has cutscenes does it. Even classic Resident Evils do this. You move forward down a hallway until you trigger a cutscene of Richard Aiken dying in the corner. You move forward in a room until you trigger a voice saying that the facility is going to self-destruct and a scripted event timer begins. You move forward down an alley until you trigger a scripted event where Nemesis pops out and you have to make a pre-scripted decision on how to proceed.

Chapter 1 of TEW wasn't a tutorial, it was an introduction. Chapters 2 and 3 were tutorial chapters.

You're judging a 15-chapter and near 20-hour game on the first half hour chapter of it. That's ridiculous. You can't condemn an entire game for 3% of it.
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Re: LTTP: The Evil Within/Pyschobreak - Finally! (No DLC stu

Postby ghostcall » Aug 24, 2015 3:12 am

Autoignition wrote:
ghostcall wrote:the whole moving forward to trigger cutscenes or scripted events with completely linear map isn't attempt to make it movie interactive?

that exactly how movie interactive use their cutscenes you don't need QTE to make it look like a movie interactive game.

chapter 1 is the biggest example of movie interactive "cinematic" too many cutscenes/scripted events..........

you can argue that chapter 1 is a "tutorial" however i consider chapter 2 is actually the tutorial explains to you how the game mechanics works.


? No? Do you play video games? "moving forward to trigger cutscenes or scripted events" is how every game that has cutscenes does it. Even classic Resident Evils do this. You move forward down a hallway until you trigger a cutscene of Richard Aiken dying in the corner. You move forward in a room until you trigger a voice saying that the facility is going to self-destruct and a scripted event timer begins. You move forward down an alley until you trigger a scripted event where Nemesis pops out and you have to make a pre-scripted decision on how to proceed.

Chapter 1 of TEW wasn't a tutorial, it was an introduction. Chapters 2 and 3 were tutorial chapters.

You're judging a 15-chapter and near 20-hour game on the first half hour chapter of it. That's ridiculous. You can't condemn an entire game for 3% of it.


umm no.

your comparing the whole moving forward and can't interact to anything in very linear fashion to richard is bad example considering richard event is time based that he might end up dead if you left him for too long on top off that you can still go back and not trigger the cutscene and he can still end up dead.

on the other hand, TEW "cinematic" experience has no option to do anything besides move forward and press a button to win (Kidman ending with killing her boss) that actually serves no purpose in the game because it is basically QTE cutscene but without pressing buttons or penalty to it.(not counting chase scenes.)

im judging because it not just the beginning but we see it throughout the game.

and it not just TEW but Wolfenstein too.

Wolfenstein had only 1 cutscene that actually mattered where you had to choose who one of your friends could die if you didn't choose which one they would kill you.
Last edited by ghostcall on Aug 24, 2015 3:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: LTTP: The Evil Within/Pyschobreak - Finally! (No DLC stu

Postby Autoignition » Aug 24, 2015 3:41 am

ghostcall wrote:umm no.

your comparing the whole moving forward and can't interact to anything in very linear fashion to richard is bad example considering richard event is time based that he might end up dead if you left him for too long on top off that you can still go back and not trigger the cutscene.

on the other hand, TEW "cinematic" experience has no option to do anything besides move forward to win to trigger the cutscene. (Kidman ending with killing her boss) that actually serves no purpose in the game. (not counting chase scenes.)

im judging because it not just the beginning but we see it throughout the game.

and it not just TEW but Wolfenstein too.

Wolfenstein had only 1 cutscene that actually mattered where you had to choose who one of your friends could die.



I didn't mean the actual mission part of that where you go mix the serum for Richard. I just meant the cutscene itself. You walk forward and a cutscene starts. That's it. Because that's all any cutscene is. You walk forward and a scene starts playing. In every single game that has cutscenes, that's how it works.

Kidman killing her boss serves no purpose in the game? What? Did you really just say that?

I'm so lost by everything you're saying to me. I don't understand what you're saying at all. Yes, cutscenes are cinematic. Most games have cutscenes. TEW actually has very little in comparison to other games, and it has Z E R O cutscenes in which you're interacting in the actual cutscene itself. Again: there are no QTEs.

Is it that you just don't want any cutscenes at all...? Because then buddy you're in the wrong genre.

When you say "interactive movie" I think of David Cage garbage. Heavy Rain and Beyond Two Souls. To a lesser extent, I think about LA Noire, which basically has the option to turn off all combat sequences entirely. To an even lesser extent, I think of Uncharted and The Last of Us, which are games that are built around those cinematic cutscenes in order to tell a dynamic and compelling story.

TEW does none of those things. TEW's cutscenes exist just to give you a sense of setting and character relationships. That's really it. They aren't very cinematic. They're just scenes of dialogues, for the most part. TEW does absolutely nothing that original RE games didn't do in terms of cutscene management.

You really need to be more concise here, because honestly man, I mean this with the utmost respect, but I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
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Re: LTTP: The Evil Within/Pyschobreak - Finally! (No DLC stu

Postby ghostcall » Aug 24, 2015 3:50 am

Autoignition wrote:
ghostcall wrote:umm no.

your comparing the whole moving forward and can't interact to anything in very linear fashion to richard is bad example considering richard event is time based that he might end up dead if you left him for too long on top off that you can still go back and not trigger the cutscene.

on the other hand, TEW "cinematic" experience has no option to do anything besides move forward to win to trigger the cutscene. (Kidman ending with killing her boss) that actually serves no purpose in the game. (not counting chase scenes.)

im judging because it not just the beginning but we see it throughout the game.

and it not just TEW but Wolfenstein too.

Wolfenstein had only 1 cutscene that actually mattered where you had to choose who one of your friends could die.



I didn't mean the actual mission part of that where you go mix the serum for Richard. I just meant the cutscene itself. You walk forward and a cutscene starts. That's it. Because that's all any cutscene is. You walk forward and a scene starts playing. In every single game that has cutscenes, that's how it works.

Kidman killing her boss serves no purpose in the game? What? Did you really just say that?

I'm so lost by everything you're saying to me. I don't understand what you're saying at all. Yes, cutscenes are cinematic. Most games have cutscenes. TEW actually has very little in comparison to other games, and it has Z E R O cutscenes in which you're interacting in the actual cutscene itself. Again: there are no QTEs.

Is it that you just don't want any cutscenes at all...? Because then buddy you're in the wrong genre.

When you say "interactive movie" I think of David Cage garbage. Heavy Rain and Beyond Two Souls. To a lesser extent, I think about LA Noire, which basically has the option to turn off all combat sequences entirely. To an even lesser extent, I think of Uncharted and The Last of Us, which are games that are built around those cinematic cutscenes in order to tell a dynamic and compelling story.

TEW does none of those things. TEW's cutscenes exist just to give you a sense of setting and character relationships. That's really it. They aren't very cinematic. They're just scenes of dialogues, for the most part. TEW does absolutely nothing that original RE games didn't do in terms of cutscene management.

You really need to be more concise here, because honestly man, I mean this with the utmost respect, but I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.


let me explain simple.

when i said Kidman kills her boss serves no purpose it is because from the GAMEPLAY you move forward press button and done.

dat cinematic experience.
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Re: LTTP: The Evil Within/Pyschobreak - Finally! (No DLC stu

Postby Autoignition » Aug 24, 2015 1:17 pm

So... a five second scene negates the gameplay of the entire rest of the 7-hour DLCs?

:T

Because that's the only time in the DLCs where something like that happens. You can take gameplay elements of different genres of games without becoming a hybrid genre or trying to appeal to that genre's audience. Just because there's some sneaking around involved in this game doesn't make it a tactical stealth game, or mean that it's trying to appeal to the Splinter Cell crowd. Just because there's one or two instances of cinematic gameplay doesn't mean that it's trying to appeal to the auteur~~ David Cage crowd. That's silly.

If people who only played cinematic interactive movie games tried to pick up TEW, they'd get frustrated and give up in the first hour. I know this because I have a friend who's exactly like that, and she couldn't get through chapter 1, because she couldn't sneak past the Sadist. She died three times and gave up. It was too hard and frustrating to her, because she doesn't play games that force you to form a strategy and deal with an open-ended environment in an effective way. If she can't QTE her way through or just easily shoot her way through via mindless shooting tactics, it becomes work to her.

Just because there's about half a dozen moments of scripted scenes in a game that's about 30 hours total including DLCs doesn't mean it's trying to appeal to a casual crowd. It's just borrowing those elements in very specific situations because it's what the devs think works best for that one particular scenario. Again, it's no different from Nemesis popping up every few screens and giving you a prompt decision as to how you want to handle it. Or is RE3 too cinematic to be survival horror, too?
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Re: LTTP: The Evil Within/Pyschobreak - Finally! (No DLC stu

Postby perpetualodium » Feb 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Autoignition wrote:So... a five second scene negates the gameplay of the entire rest of the 7-hour DLCs?


He's talking about the parts where you're limited to walking forward until you eventually have to interact with something by pressing just one button (or the gameplay naturally returns to normal). I love these segments, but a lot of people seem to hate them. Pretty sure that's what he's talking about.
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