Camera Angle

(Discuss the game)

Which Camera Would You Prefer

Static
30
73%
Over the Shoulder
11
27%
First Person
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 41

Re: Camera Angle

Postby PanamaRed » Jan 28, 2013 3:16 pm

I hope people realize before they get disappointed that this game will not use static camera. Mikami and the people who worked with him on RE4 created the over the shoulder perspective and it is too obvious that Mikami will use over the shoulder if he decides to make a TP game. Come on, this is 2013 not 1996. The static camera will never come back.
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Re: Camera Angle

Postby NinesVoerman » Feb 22, 2013 9:59 am

Hopefully it'll be static cameras like in Code Veronica, where they move with your character.
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Re: Camera Angle

Postby Saint Ste7en » Feb 25, 2013 11:19 pm

I don't know if there's a term for it, but a pre-positioned, following camera is the best possibility for a Survival/Horror game.

Static cameras, like Resident Evil, are great because it gives you a view of your surroundings. Being able to see the whole room is perfect for developing a fearful atmosphere. Also, static cameras player can memorize an area quickly without getting lost. However, the problem with static cameras is when the camera jumps. Because static camera jumping tank controls are a must, and modern video gamers just aren't accustom to tank controls. There are also the issues that, and this happens often in the Resident Evil series, the player will be forced to shoot at hostiles that are not on the screen. That causes me, as the player, to miss out on what is happening on screen. That's probably my biggest issue with static cameras.

An over-the-shoulder and a FPS are both limiting on several aspects when compared to classic static cameras. FPS cameras are good for immersion but are incredibly limiting when it comes to puzzles. That's not to say it's impossible to have great puzzles in an FPS survival/horror game, but there are many puzzles that work better when seen from a certain angle. And there's feelings of fear that static cameras can better develop than an over-the-shoulder camera can. An example would be crossing a rickety bridge. Walking along a dangerous bridge that's swaying, creaking, and looks like it's ready to fall at any moment, is much more tense when you can actually see where you'd fall. No doubt a good developer can make it scary either way, but when you can actually see how far you would fall if that bridge snaps... That really raises the tension. Another thing good that static cameras do that either an FPS camera or an over-the-shoulder camera can do is blind the player in a good way. Walking towards the unknown can be tension mounding, as Silent Hill 2 showed us all too well. Problem is that not every setting can use opaque fog to block vision, and in replacement they can use static cameras. There is a difference between walking down stairs with your character, and watching your character walk down a flight of stairs, without knowing what's at the bottom of the stairs.


Haunting Ground is the best example of how Survival/Horror cameras *should* work. Here's a visual example. I've talked about why static cameras are generally better when it comes to building atmosphere, memorizing the layout of an area, advanced puzzles, and over all exploring, but I've also talking about some issues and Haunting Ground handles those like a champ. The first is that the positioned camera follows the protagonist around so the camera doesn't have to jump so often. Second on that same topic, right before the camera jumps, the following camera almost always stops, so the player, whether he notices or not, expects a camera jump. I didn't notice this until I started analyzing the game a bit more. Never once did the camera change and I wasn't shocked at it. Goodness knows, Resident Evil knocked me down in surprise with all of the camera jumps it gave me at times (and not always in a good way). As far as seeing what you're shooting at? You were supposed to get as much distance between you and the pursuers, so not seeing them was a good thing. But if that kind of camera was in a Resident Evil game, I imagine the camera could be programmed to where if a hostile is in a certain range the camera could zoom out a bit so the player can see the hostile and his/herself. A pre-positioned, following camera is definitely the way to go when designing a survival/horror game.



tl;dr: Use the camera system that Haunting Ground uses.
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Re: Camera Angle

Postby PanamaRed » Feb 26, 2013 7:14 pm

I understand the point you want to make with the style of camera you just showed but the truth is that static camera and the camera you showed basically pave the way for pretty mediocre gameplay and awkward controls(at least by today´s standards). I think everyone or mostly everyone who is familiar with the work of Mikami knows that the guy today puts gameplay above everything. Bad gameplay mechanics are a big no no for Mikami and I can assure you that this game will not be different. Unless he is able to somehow make a game using those types of cameras and great gameplay it is not going to happen.
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Re: Camera Angle

Postby Saint Ste7en » Feb 26, 2013 8:11 pm

I would lose every inch of respect I have for Mikami as a survival/horror game director if he puts gameplay above a fearful atmosphere. This next statement is a fact: If Mikami puts gameplay before atmosphere than he clearly forgot how to make a good survival/horror game.

And actually, no. Haunting Ground does not have the clunky tank controls that is used in other classic survival/horror games, so pretty much anyone can pick up the controller and *not* get frustrated right away. Running away from enemies is the top strategy in that game, so they had to perfect smooth movements and quick getaways, and this game does it with flying colors.
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Re: Camera Angle

Postby PanamaRed » Feb 26, 2013 9:47 pm

Im pretty sure the game will have a great atmosphere. They have the guy from REmake working on this after all. The thing is that there is something the people in this forum fail to understand. What you think "pure survival horror" is might not be the same as what Mikami considers "pure survival horror". Lets take RE4 for example. Considering the opinion of most of the people here who prefer static cameras and low ammo I am pretty sure they do not consider RE4 a survival horror game. Now, I don´t know if anyone has ever asked Mikami if he considers RE4 a survival horror game but I strongly believe he does. Personally I don´t care since Mikami is one of my favorite game directors and I am sure this game will be good. I just recommend some of the people here to take off those nostalgia glasses and wait for this game with an open mind because if they are expecting a game like REmake with tank controls and pre-rendered bg then some are bound to get disappointed.
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Re: Camera Angle

Postby Saint Ste7en » Feb 27, 2013 12:16 am

I also have to argue with people who do not agree that Resident Evil 4 is a survival/horror game, but I'll save that for another thread. And I will say, I would be slightly disappointed if Project Zwei turns into a, more-or-less, clone of Resident Evil 4, but I certainly would not be upset. It isn't a classic-style survival/horror, but Resident Evil 4 is one heck of a good game in my opinion and I most certainly would love to play a new game with a replication of those game mechanics. It is safe to say that Resident Evil 4 bleeds survival/horror more than most "survival/horror" games released afterwards (Haunting Ground being the prime exception, but of course there are others).


Saying that, I'm certain Mikami knows that Resident Evil 4 is not "pure" survival/horror considering he practically re-invented the genre back in 1996. The game has tons of aspects that were popular in action games and had no business being in a survival/horror game. Things such as buying and selling, weapon upgrades and others. Either way, I don't think that you should be so certain that Mikami won't make a survival/horror game with classic controls. You might end up eating your own shoe in the end (emphasis on the "might"). Who's to say that Project Zwei *doesn't* have classic survival/horror controls and camera?
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Re: Camera Angle

Postby Rikitatsu » Feb 28, 2013 1:07 am

Who's to say that Project Zwei *doesn't* have classic survival/horror controls and camera?

It's just unlikely, way too unlikely in this day and age.
This is a huge budget project from Bethesda, I assure you they will try to appeal to a wide-audience, and won't risk it for the sake of "Old-School" horror fans who want fixed cameras.

Besides it can be over the shoulder and still be "Pure Survival Horror" , RE4 had some terrifying moments (Like when you first meet the Regenerator).

Project ZWEI is all about ("Overcoming and Destroying your Fears") That's Mikami's definition of Pure Survival Horror, so you should expect a good amount of action-y elements.
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Re: Camera Angle

Postby PanamaRed » Mar 01, 2013 1:09 pm

Saint Ste7en wrote:I also have to argue with people who do not agree that Resident Evil 4 is a survival/horror game, but I'll save that for another thread. And I will say, I would be slightly disappointed if Project Zwei turns into a, more-or-less, clone of Resident Evil 4, but I certainly would not be upset. It isn't a classic-style survival/horror, but Resident Evil 4 is one heck of a good game in my opinion and I most certainly would love to play a new game with a replication of those game mechanics. It is safe to say that Resident Evil 4 bleeds survival/horror more than most "survival/horror" games released afterwards (Haunting Ground being the prime exception, but of course there are others).


Saying that, I'm certain Mikami knows that Resident Evil 4 is not "pure" survival/horror considering he practically re-invented the genre back in 1996. The game has tons of aspects that were popular in action games and had no business being in a survival/horror game. Things such as buying and selling, weapon upgrades and others. Either way, I don't think that you should be so certain that Mikami won't make a survival/horror game with classic controls. You might end up eating your own shoe in the end (emphasis on the "might"). Who's to say that Project Zwei *doesn't* have classic survival/horror controls and camera?


I mean at this point we can expect anything but im going to play it safe and say it won´t have classic controls or fixed cameras.
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Re: Camera Angle

Postby Double Death » Mar 29, 2013 9:20 am

Static. Exploration and puzzle solving in first or third person view is one of the worst things in gaming in my opinion. Looking at all the corners of every room up close is not interesting. Especially when you don't find anything in any of the identical corners. It actually makes me dizzy. You get maybe 2% of the game from looking in these corners, but you pretty much have to look at all of them to make sure you don't miss anything. That is why I say static over fps/tps for survival horror. I also say it is great for atmosphere.
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